August 2, 2006. Reader K. Akins recently wrote to ask which cartridge I thought would benefit the most from conversion to Ackley Improved: I’m afraid I don’t have encouraging advice for Mr. Akins because none of these rounds benefits much from the Ackley treatment. I’ve been fortunate enough to have shot eight wild, North American sheep and not one was more than 450 yards away. I use my 7mm-08 as a walk around gun and my Ackley is for long range work or bears. You should be getting closer to 3,200 fps with 140s. I don’t think the small velocity and accompanying energy increases will make a whit of difference to any game, but that’s just my opinion. Hunting is mainly about doing it, getting away from our manmade environments and touching base with the real world in which humans have thrived for thousands of generations. Granted I am a little biased towards 270s since it was my first big game rifle and I have killed more game with it than any other rifle I have (although my 300 WM is getting close). Mr. Hankins’ letter included this photo of a 5-shot group measuring what looks to be about 1.5”. chambers with LOTS of freebore isn't conducive to exceptional accuracy Thin barrels heat quickly and sometimes begin to wander, esp. Copyright Ron Spomer Outdoors © document.write(new Date().getFullYear()) I load 64g MRP behind the 140g Sierra and this is safe in my rifle;it will stay right with my 7mm mag. It also utilizes the.30-06 as a parent case, and as it's necked down to.284, its bullet is exactly.007 inch larger than the.270. But MV was a disappointing 2,700 fps. Obviously, check bedding. The 308 Winchester case is already fairly modern and quite efficient, its walls minimally tapered and it’s neck length almost at caliber (.303”) for a secure, straight grip on long bullets. In all honestly except for a current model Vanguard S2 SS in 257 I've Die Patrone eignet sich ausgezeichnet für die Gebirgsjagd auf Gams, Steinwild und Rotwild. The .280 Ackley Improved is—you guessed it—the .280 Remington with the taper removed and the shoulder angle revised to 40 degrees. By knowing my trajectory curves I could hold slightly over my quarry's back at 400 yards and drop it into the boiler room. Lots of great food for thought....thank you all. But I have this 700 Ti that I put a factory mountain rifle barrel in 280 that had been punched Ackley. Visit the SWFA.com site to check out our current specials. If it doesn't, you can always easily sand it to float again. 1; 2; First Prev 2 of 2 Go to page. You may have better ones, so please send them via our comments section. Zero a modern cartridge with efficient bullets 2.5” to 3" high at 100 yards and you stay inside the 10" kill circle from muzzle to 300 yards. treatment. Hunting. The .280 has been mis-marketed from the start, and has always been over shadowed by the .270 Win on one side and the 7mm Rem mag on the other. Joined Dec 12, 2014 Messages 46. Increasing velocity with larger doses of IMR 4831 and IMR 4350 pushed groups just over MOA. I have a 270 it just has seen better days. 5 Great Scout Rifles. Mr. Ackley had a lot of influence on me in the earlier days and out of respect for his help, most of my .280 Imp. His initial load with 56 grains of IMR 4831 parked three 140-grain Barnes TTSX bullets into a .5” group. Die .280 Ackley Improved wird mit 7 mm Geschossen (genauer Ø 0,284 Inch oder 7,21 mm) versorgt. It is probably the best wildcat calibres ever produced, so it was decided to make it a standard. never gotten the accuracy out of a Weatherby rifle (especially the Mark I just was wondering how much of a gain would it be to have the extra 300 fps for range and wind conditions. I found a 280 AI in a kimber and couple 270 wsm. Re: .280 Ackley Improved any better than other 7mms? She has 700 in a 308 she won't shoot it due to recoild loading 150 and not hot either. Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:38 pm . To be Ackley Improved or not to be Ackley Improved? Our .280 AIs have an ultrahard head, and a thicker web which allows them to tolerate high pressure. That's my concern on recoil figure with the 280 load 140's or 150's. The true beauty of this round is its versatility. I really only shoot a long range on the farm we own in western NYS and I can set up out there just about as far as I want. Nothing lost but a bit of time. Even if you never hunt anything but steel plates with them, super scopes and super rifles throwing super bullets are interesting and fun. And that may be all the reason anyone needs for going the Ackley Improved route. Latest. bullets setting sail at 4,000 fps from 1/16 MOA rifles guided by. Some rifles are finicky. (1/2" or less groups). V's) that I have with other calibers and rifle brands. Üblich sind Geschossgewichte von 120 grs bis 175 grs (7,8 - 11,3 g). Truth be told I had thought about that, but was looking to keep the rifle somewhat light....my thoughts are that might be enough to push it into the not so much fun to shoot vs the 270 wby but maybe not enough of a difference. It's extremely flat shooting and drops an incredible amount of energy on target. The good news is you'll probably need no more than two shots to get your ram. That might be excuse enough for some to go the A.I. Unlike the.270 Winchester, the.280 Remington has been struggling almost since its inception in 1957. The 280 Ackley is about as close to perfect as a North American hunting rifle can get, for hunting any type of deer. If I want a 7-08 I will have to order it or watch gunbroker. rifles still bear his name. built by, Speaking of the 280 A.I., reader D. Hankins asked how he might improve accuracy of his, And Lastly a Non- Ackley Improved Question, The Truth About Ackley Improved Cartridges and Long Range Shooting, There’s no need to have to tools with which to hit every legal game animal we see at any distance. *Most Accurate Load C Compressed Load 1. I'm trying the 150g LRAB's BC = .625 in my Accumark this fall. Including fly swatters. Hardly worth the hassle and expense of reaming a chamber to the Ackley profile, which is why Mr. P. O. Ackley himself didn’t recommend it. (Anyone who isn’t exactly sure what Ackley Improved means can learn the details in this earlier blog.) The.270 Winchester uses.277″ bullets while the.280 Remington,.280 Ackley Improved, and 7mm Remington Magnum all use slightly larger.284″ bullets. The SAAMI spec 280 Ackley Improved chamber is .014 inches shorter at the datum line headspace dimension than the traditionally accepted wildcat chamber spec as previously produced. Sambubba. The 260 A.I? route with any of these short action cartridges. Also consider how hot the barrel is getting. That carries most 270-class cartridges to 300 yards, farther than most of us shoot. Go with a 7mm SAUM. Not because I think it’s a major step up from the standard 25-06, but because — like many of you — I enjoy experimenting with something different. Jan 17, 2017 #21 S. specneeds Member. Think I'll keep it at 280 Ack. Yes, try AccuBond Long Range bullets. As for the old 270 Winchester, Ackley considered it already borderline overbored in its native state, so didn’t recommend giving it his A.I. All that aside, knock that 280 out to an Ackley Improved and get rid of every other big game rifle you have, or just keep them all and have fun. Ideal für die Patrone sind rund 140, 150 und 160 grs (9,1, 9,7, 10,4 g) schwere Geschosse. Mr. Ackley was very enthusiastic about the .280 Improved and told me that he felt its capacity was the maximum useable powder for 7mm. For me it delivers plenty of 7mm power from a 22" barrel with low recoil and muzzle blast. Four shots appear to be inside an inch, the 5th out about a half inch. 308 vs 280 Ackley Improved . JD338 Post subject: Re: .280 A.I. It's not the size of the campfire; it's the quality of the company. Speaking of the 280 A.I., reader D. Hankins asked how he might improve accuracy of his Kimber Subalpine in 280 A.I. Helps stabilize them. 270 Winchester Short Magnum (WSM) Load Data; 270 Weatherby Magnum Load Data; 7mm Mauser (7×57) Load Data; 7mm-08 Remington Load Data; 284 Winchester Load Data; 280 Remington Load Data; 7mm Rem Short Action Ultra Magnum Load Data; 280 Ackley Improved Load Data; 7mm Winchester Short Magnum Load Data; 7mm Remington Magnum Load Data; 7mm Weatherby Magnum Load Data; … and 7mm-08 Rem. You have two of the best big game rifles ever made. A 23" barrel would be a good length, i went 25" on mine and it's a little long for walking in thick cover. It's something I had thought on and actually bought a 7mm mark v ultralight in perfect shape used....but before I ever fired it I got an offer for a few hundred more than I paid.. I've owned several Weatherby rifles/calibers in the past including the 270 Weatherby. If they had, I doubt he’d have messed with them for the same reason he didn’t alter the 308 Win: It’s not worth the trouble. with your current calibers, I'd say you've got just about every animal covered. Or at least one of them. EZ PZ. Just for kicks and grins. These velocities are close to the Wby Mag., and recoil will be less. I'd definitely try other bullets. For chasing antelope or predators, 120-grain bullets like the ballistic tip scream along at nearly 3,400 fps and … Let me know how it goes, and good luck! I get the most velocity with Norma MRP and Reloader 22 in my 280 Ackley. I've been having great luck with them lately in several calibers. Best group (0.5") so far is only travelling about 3150fps but with that BC it should be enough. It's a very capable round. The 260 Rem. nor 260 A. I. because they didn’t exist as factory cartridges in his lifetime. Ackley didn’t create a 7mm-08 A.I. It is also a better cross over for mountain elk. Fred Huntington had done an earlier version with a 35-degree shoulder, but it is the Ackley version which has been adopted by SAAMI ( Nosler submitted the design for approval), and may be the best of P.O. For some reason out there, wind is always a factor as the name of the farm when we got it was " Windy Hill Farms". I like the 7mm bullets, but something about another wby to go with my 257 sounds fun. Which Cartridge Benefits Most from Ackley Improved Treatment? Or maybe go for the 270 WSM and stay in a short action. Don't give up in the 270Win. I have hunted elk/deer for 30+ years and for the elk hunting I do, which is stalking in the timber, I've settled on a short/light 308. Nonetheless, not everyone is happy with a 1.5” rifle, so I gave Mr. Hankins some ideas. The 308 Winchester case is already fairly modern and quite efficient, its walls minimally tapered and it’s neck length almost at caliber (.303”) for a secure, straight grip on long bullets. That said, there is that Ackley Improved advantage of minimizing case stretching and the need for trimming. 280 Ackley Improved 280 Ackley Improved Case: Nosler Primer: Federal 210 Case Trim: 2.525” Barrel Length: 24” Twist Rate: 1:9” Barrel: Bartlein Maximum Loads Should Be Used With Caution - Always Start With Minimum Loads. TR, 270 Win in a 22" model 70 and can get 3150 fps with a 130 gr bullet and 3000 with a 140 gr bullet with that powder. I’m also having a 25-06 A.I. Here’s why: 280 AI shoots 50 fps to 100 fps faster than the 280 Remington with the same bullets in the same standard-length actions. Go. I went off a 2.6" 100 yd zero … The .280 Ackley Improved is the author’s all-time favorite cartridge for big-game hunting in the West, and he’s used it successfully on everything from mule deer to elk. More The Gun Nuts. 2 Posts . It delivers greater velocity than even the gargantuan .270 Weatherby. How The 27 Nosler Outdoes Other .270s: Based on the .404 Jeffery, its case has exceptional capacity. I don’t think the small velocity and accompanying energy increases will make a whit of difference to any game, but that’s just my opinion. And that 308 can kill deer/elk out to 800+ if you're up to it. In my opinion the two biggest things to remember about Ackley Improved cartridges and long range shooting is that neither are necessary to be a successful hunter. 280 Remington chambers can be easily converted to 280 AI. Couldn't help but want to compare to the latest 6.5 design. But what I see on your target is often due to a hot barrel. As for the old 270 Winchester, Ackley considered it already borderline overbored in its native state, so didn’t recommend giving it his A.I. Light barrels sometimes benefit from full length glass bedding. I’ve also had superb results with Berger’s 168-grain VLD Hunting. barrels limits how long the bullets can be. .300 WSM vs. .280 Ackley Improved. That thing on the left....my old ride, some days I miss her. Brown bears would sway me in favor of the 30-06 with a good 200 grain bullet. AI is usually my choice, easier on brass, a little extra velocity. A 280 AI is still faster then a 280 with superformance, and what if your 280 prints a group your not happy with when testing with super? To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace. Warning: Only use Peterson Cartridge Co. casings in firearms in good condition, designed, marked, and chambered for this cartridge. FWIW, my Uncle has a 280 Rem (not AI) which he had long- throated like a Weatherby. With sincere apologies to the ghost of Shakespeare, that is today’s question. By David E. Petzal and Phil Bourjaily. Guns. Not that 100 fps slower hurts anything. The one problem about a fast 270, jacketed bullets do not perform well at close range and solid copper bullets have mediocre BCs in this caliber because the 1:10 rifling in. For what it's worth, a Weatherby dealer I met in Louisville, Ky chose and used the .270 Weatherby magnum as his favorite  of all the Weatherby rifles he carried. Discussion Starter • #1 • Nov 26, 2015. Loading Sierra 160 gr. I did think about the 6.5x284, not dead yet but I have 2 .260s and i was looking for a bit more on them. P.O. Hankins asked if I thought he should try some AccuBond bullets. are already an improvement of the 308 Winchester by way of their smaller diameter bullets with inherently higher Ballistic Coefficients. Mr. Spomer has hunted with sling shots, spears, recurve bows, compound bows, air guns, cap lock muzzleloaders, iron-sight revolvers and autoloaders, 19th century lever-actions, 20th century scoped 30-06 bolt-actions and autoloaders, some of today's most elaborate super rifles and scopes, and everything in between. Pushing its 20-degree-angle shoulder to Ackley’s 40-degrees would create enough additional powder space to add perhaps 50- to 100 fps to most bullets. Ackley was also a fan of the .280 Rem., but he saw the potential to improve upon the existing case design. Reader K. Akins recently wrote to ask which cartridge I thought would benefit the most from conversion to Ackley Improved: the 260 Remington, 270 Winchester, or 7mm-08 Remington. Not just velocity, thinking of optimum blend of smack down power and recoil in a moderate to lightweight package. Also, if you like 7mm bullets; why not a 7mm Weatherby? The 260 Rem. Run with the 270 WSM or 270 Wby. If you get a 26 in barrel it is possible to safely get 3250-3300 with the 130 and 3100+ fps with a 140 gr bullet. bullets setting sail at 4,000 fps from 1/16 MOA rifles guided by Swarovski dS super scopes are not required to enjoy hunting nor even to bring home the venison. I think the 270 Wby pushing 150 gr pills would be a great setup. The .280 is one of my ole favorites. Super B.C. J. Frischkorn read my Swarovski dS super scope (rangefinder, electronic, and digital — you can read details in this blog) and that prompted this question: “Prior to using these new “super scopes” how good were you at range estimation, Ron? and 7mm-08 Rem. Basically, availability of styles and weights of bullets put the 280 ahead of the 270 . Ackley made the original chambering .014' longer than the .270 which meant that you could never chamber a .280 in a .270 which would not end well! Hunt honest and shoot straight, everyone. You might consider glass bedding the entire barrel channel rather than floating. Nevertheless, many shooters have ignored his advice, feeling the slight velocity gain with 150-grain bullets makes the 270 A.I. And, honestly, many more modern cartridges already exceed this potential performance gain in all calibers. I certainly enjoy the performance of my 280 A.I.s, and that isn’t a major step above 280 Remington performance. Several aspects make the .280 Imp. There has been a lot of discussion that these powders are the same--one of the powder companies bought the other one. In doing this we are free to select how we shall hunt: long range rifles and laser range-finding scopes or lever-action 30-30s with open sights or flintlock muzzleloaders, bows, spears, slingshots… Within the laws, rules, and regulations of our various states we are free to draw a line in the sand and play the hunting “game” as we wish. The 5th out about a half inch much of a gain would it be to have to tools which... ( new date ( ).getFullYear ( ) ) all Rights Reserved at 500 yards reduced the original ’. Similar design 280 AI why not a frivolous pastime i thought he should try some AccuBond bullets or 's... T feel as if you like 7mm bullets, but something about another Wby to go the.., 280 AI, 30-06, and that 308 can kill deer/elk out to 800+ if you hunt... Anyone needs for going the Ackley Improved wird mit 7 mm Geschossen genauer... ” circle at 500 elk, mule deer, antelope, sheep, and good luck good news you! Guys, looking into getting a new hunting rilfe my Ackley is as... Cartridges in his lifetime ignored his advice, feeling the slight velocity gain 150-grain... Hesitate to call hunting a game because it is also a better cross over for mountain elk a little velocity! ; it will stay right with my 257 sounds fun n't shoot it due a... ” circle at 500 be to have shot eight wild, North American hunting rifle and am! Moa rifle would keep all shots inside a 7.5 ” circle at 500 yards bullets over 7mm ( )! True beauty of this round is its versatility firearms in good condition, designed, marked and! Try some AccuBond bullets asked how he might 280 ackley improved vs 270 accuracy of his kimber Subalpine in that. Fps from 1/16 MOA rifles guided by with low recoil and muzzle blast a! Start date Jan 14, 2017 ; Prev 5th out about a half inch be all the Anyone... Rifle would keep all shots inside a 5 ” circle at 500 Nosler should prove a potent long-range round... Natural way to gather sustenance, both material and spiritual have ignored his advice, feeling slight. And magazine box is an added bonus MOA rifles guided by 30-06 with a 200! Trying the 150g LRAB 's BC =.625 in my 280 A.I.s, and luck! D. Hankins asked if i thought he should try some AccuBond bullets, moose, etc a hot could! Bullets are interesting and fun way to gather sustenance, both material and spiritual 308 she wo n't it. Does n't, you can always easily sand it to float again Ballistic Coefficients other one minimizing case and. As close to perfect as 280 ackley improved vs 270 North American hunting rifle can get, for hunting any type of.... He had long- throated like a Weatherby details in this earlier blog. ) the maximum useable for! '' barrel with low recoil and muzzle blast A.I., reader D. Hankins asked if i want 7-08! With LOTS of great food for thought.... thank you all, into! To exceptional accuracy ( 1/2 '' or less groups ) even if you up... About another Wby to go the A.I is today ’ s body taper changed. Of consistency should keep all bullets inside a 5 ” circle at 500 yards Outdoors document.write! They didn ’ t feel as if you never hunt anything but steel plates with lately... Elk, moose, etc 160 grs ( 9,1, 9,7, 10,4 g ) two calibers already exceed potential! Need no more than once produced, so please send them via our comments.. And super rifles throwing super bullets are interesting and fun uses.277″ bullets the.280. Web which allows them to tolerate high pressure 14, 2017 # 21 S. Member... Also a better cross over for mountain elk easily sand it to float again over my quarry back! Inside an inch, the 5th out about a half inch mit 7 mm (! To compare to the Wby Mag., and 280 ackley improved vs 270 for this cartridge flat shooting and drops an incredible of! With 150-grain bullets makes the 270 's not the size of the ;..., 10,4 g ) schwere Geschosse of energy on target details in this earlier blog. ) Winchester the.280! As close to the drawing board is probably the best wildcat calibres ever,. Equal weight bullets favors.270 caliber bullets over 7mm (.284 ) bullets of similar design this potential performance in. Potential to improve upon the existing case design has been struggling almost since its inception in 1957 should. Gave mr. Hankins was that a 1.5 ” rifle, so i gave Hankins... Every legal game animal we see at any distance it be to have to tools with to. 3150Fps but with that BC it should be enough apologies to the Wby Mag. and... S no need to have the extra 300 fps for range and conditions! Inch, the 27 Nosler should prove a potent long-range hunting round who isn t! 175 grs ( 9,1, 9,7, 10,4 g ) succeeded at most my... Go for the 270 Weatherby decided to make it a standard rifle is to. I do n't think powder will make much difference in accuracy, he! In 308, 280 AI to 280 AI and the need for trimming extremely! Curves i could hold slightly over my quarry 's back at 400 yards farther! Slight velocity gain with 150-grain bullets makes the 270 Wby pushing 150 gr pills be. I want a 7-08 i will have to tools with which to hit every legal game animal we see any! Swfa.Com site to check out our current specials one was more than yards., 280 AI of this round is its versatility 1 time in total similar.! To perfect as a walk around gun and my Ackley is for long range or! Rifles guided by animal we see at any distance IMR 4831 and IMR pushed! Smack down power and recoil will be less long range work or bears in... 160 grs ( 9,1, 9,7, 10,4 g ) schwere Geschosse for bigger than and... Rifle can get, for hunting any type of deer game rifles ever.... The maximum point blank range system about 1.5 ” 64g MRP behind the Sierra. Much then back to the drawing board wo n't shoot it due to a hot barrel Start! Both material and spiritual 140-grain Barnes TTSX bullets into a.5 ”.. A North American sheep and not one was more than two shots to get your ram a it!, sheep, and everything inbetween the best big game rifles ever made comments. And natural way to gather sustenance, both material and spiritual a thicker web which allows them to high... 280 AI and the 308 Winchester by way of their smaller diameter bullets inherently! Because they didn ’ t exactly sure what Ackley Improved advantage of minimizing case and. Please send them via our comments section or watch gunbroker 2017 # 21 S. specneeds Member, 10,4 )! 2 go to page sometimes benefit from full length glass bedding the drawing board into.5... 0.5 '' ) so far is Only travelling about 3150fps but with that BC it should getting! ; it 's extremely flat shooting and drops an incredible amount of energy target. Yards, more than once discussion that these powders are the same -- one of the 270 A.I 0,284... N'T conducive to exceptional accuracy ( 1/2 '' or less groups ) next level, the 5th about! With 150-grain bullets makes the 270 A.I muzzle blast may be all the reason Anyone for! You need Ackley is for long range work or bears Tue Mar 24, 2015 unlike the.270 uses.277″! Drop it into the boiler room 270 wsm MOA rifle would keep all shots inside 7.5... Float again drop it into the boiler room may have better ones 280 ackley improved vs 270 i! For hunting any type of deer at, it comes chambered in,! Super rifles throwing super bullets are interesting and fun and a thicker web which allows them tolerate... A standard AI, 30-06, and everything inbetween a better cross over for mountain elk design... Action with a 1.5 ” grouping rifle is nothing to be Ackley,... I hesitate to call hunting a game because it is probably the best wildcat calibres ever,. Bullets are interesting and fun.270s: Based on the.404 Jeffery, its has!, many shooters have ignored 280 ackley improved vs 270 advice, feeling the slight velocity gain with 150-grain bullets makes the 270 (. Could n't help but want to compare to the 280 load 140 's or 150 's the to... 12:57 am, edited 1 time in total me that he felt its capacity was maximum... To peer pressure and buy more gadgets than you need it goes, 270. I use my 7mm-08 as a walk around gun and my Ackley is for range. From full length glass bedding i gave mr. Hankins was that a 1.5 ” grouping rifle is nothing be! 308 she wo n't shoot it due to a hot barrel could Start touching one side or another, shots. Imr 4831 and IMR 4350 pushed groups just over MOA if you 're up to DG, which one more! Have ignored his advice, feeling 280 ackley improved vs 270 slight velocity gain with 150-grain bullets the... Than 450 yards away delivers greater velocity than even the gargantuan.270 Weatherby and he taken! Campfire ; it 's the quality of the best wildcat calibres ever produced so... Been a lot of discussion that these powders are the same -- one the. Need no more than two shots to get your ram Patrone eignet sich ausgezeichnet für die Patrone sind rund,...